Jason_Perlow has joined the conversation. - * Mac: - - Why so many lurkers & few talkers, yeah? - * atekant: - - It is the weekly Strong Silent Types meeting - * Jason_Perlow: - - Zima??? - * Dwight: - - I'm trying to get a little work done and reading a magazine as well. Sorry. - * JackR: - - Let me ask a question: does anyone else have trouble logging onto MSN? - * Mac: - - YES!!! This is my 1st time and it took an hour - * Jason_Perlow: - - I'm not sure if someone kicked me off or if Win95 just became unstable last time - * Petersta: - - Nope, I don't - * atekant: - - jack: not if it is the first time since last reboot - - * Zima has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Hi zima - * Mac: - - My problem was that I couldn't get it to dial the prefix to get thru my pbx. - * Zima: - - Hello all - * Jason_Perlow: - - nice of you to make it Zima - * Zima: - - Hi Jason, Sorry it took me so long. - * Dwight: - - The only time I have problems is after using a PPP connection - * JackR: - - My system does the most stupid things, like dialling before going off hook! - * Jason_Perlow: - - PPP is extremely unstable - * Dwight: - - PPP has been pretty solid here. Only have problems with MSN. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Zima and I are the current denizens of #windows95 on IRC. - - - Mac has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - And GodotBot, when he is working properly. - - - Zima has left the conversation.* - - - Zima has joined the conversation.* - * Zima: - - That was wierd. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Stay in one place, Zima - * atekant: - - jason: good luck to you when the os2'ers raid the place - * Jason_Perlow: - - atek: I am the main OS/2er. - * Zima: - - are we not able to open more than one chat windows? - * Dwight: - - yep. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I also kickban people when they get too rowdyy and obscene. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I dont care if they are my Team OS/2 friends or not. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Business is business. - * Dwight: - - Sounds fair. - - - Zima has left the conversation.* - * Petersta: - - Does that mean you have a "Warped" mind or just the computer? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I have a reputation in the OS/2 community for being a loose canon. I have my own opinions and I do what I please. - * atekant: - - should visit the channel sometime. are there certain schedules - * Dwight: - - Jason - What's your day job? - * Jason_Perlow: - - And the big brass IBMers respect me for it. * Jason_Perlow: - - Dwight, I am responsible for the client-server OS/2 and desktop strategy of Canon USA. - * Jason_Perlow: - - So I am tolerated simply becuase I spend a lot of money. Nothing more. - * Dwight: - - Sounds like a great, albeit busy, job. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Yep. - - - Maru has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - And when people interfere with business, I get very pissed off. Like at Paulo Pignatelli earlier. - - - hmatthews has joined the conversation.* - * Dwight: - - What'd he do/say? - - - hmatthews has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Dwight: he abandoned his commitments and his customers. - * Dwight: - - oh. - * Jason_Perlow: - - And he is never going to get my business EVER again. - - - Petersta has left the conversation.* - * Dwight: - - Who is he? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Paulo Pignatelli is the owner of the Corner Store, a large mail order retailer of OS/2 software. - - - Zima has joined the conversation.* - * Dwight: - - gotcha. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Or, at least that WAS what Corner Store used to do, up until recently. - * Zima: - - My scroll dosn't work. - - - Mac has joined the conversation.* - * Dwight: - - bailed on OS/2? - * atekant: - - Zima: am I to take you are a Zima drinker/fan? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Paulo is also a former investment banker and made a lot of contracts with me when I was still on Wall Street. Now he left my former employers high and dry. - * Zima: - - ate: Yes, I'm a zima drinker - - - Mac has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - What does Zima taste like, anyways? - * atekant: - - zima: can yu name that taste. is it soome kind of flower or something? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Dwight, yes he bailed - * Zima: - - Jason: My scroll dosn't work in the chat area. starts flickering. I have to leave and re enter - * Jason_Perlow: - - thats a nice bug - * Jason_Perlow: - - Zima what video drivers - * Zima: - - Ciruss - * Dwight: - - Jason - Doesn't sound like anybody to do ANY business with. - * Zima: - - here it goes - * Jason_Perlow: - - OS/2 or not, you dont abandon people. You continue to support it until people have moved over to something else. Thats what a PROFESSIONAL does. - - - cjs has joined the conversation.* - * Zima: - - Hey it's working! Cool! - * Dwight: - - Jason - yep. - - - RainX has left the conversation.* - * cjs: - - What's working? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I happen to have a lot of faith in OS/2. I think that OS/2 and Win95 will coexist and someday IBM and MS will reconcile. Right now I am sitting on both sides of the fence and not putting my eggs in one basket. - - - Jerry_Mahnke has joined the conversation.* - * Zima: - - cjs: The scroll feature in GeneralChat - - - Jerry_Mahnke has left the conversation.* - * atekant: - - My break is over. Gotta gp back and do some work. - * Zima: - - bye atekant - - - atekant has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - However, I do run the biggest OS/2 user group in the world, and I am one of OS/2's most vocal advocates. I am also one of the few who is a legitimate Win95 beta tester. That puts me in a very unique situation because unlike many OS/2ers I have a healthy dialogue with MS. Many of them are friends of mine. - - - Phantom has joined the conversation.* - * Phantom: - - hi 'yall - * Jason_Perlow: - - hi phantom - * Zima: - - hi phantom - * Dwight: - - Jason - You sound amazingly reasonable to me. I'm definately a windows person. But try to be open to everything. - * Dwight: - - Hi phantom. - * Phantom: - - did everyone have a good four days off? - * Zima: - - Is this the same Phantom they did anartical in the Seattle times? - - - Bananaman has left the conversation.* - * Zima: - - oops, artical - * Jason_Perlow: - - OS/2 is a decent windows platform and it will do well. But Windows95 will also do well, and as a MIS officer at a information technology company I cannot ignore it. Plain and Simple. - * Dwight: - - Four whole days off. I wish. - * Phantom: - - Z - uhoh, I'd better go... No, really no. - * Phantom: - - Gee, I didn't touch a computer for four days? so that was withdrawl symptoms I was feeling! - * Phantom: - - Jason, what's your opinion of OS/2? - * Phantom: - - Jason, (sorry) specific opinions? - * Dwight: - - Jason - Fair. I do the windows thing because I can sell my skills easier. Not a lot else. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Phantom, I know how you feel. I spent four days at my girlfirend's condo with a Mac with no connectivity to the internet and I was starting to get edgy. Other than stuffing our faces and making love, i started to get REALLY bored. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Phantom, Like? - * Zima: - - Jason: I think you should go see a sex therapist if you are getting tired of sex. :-) - * Phantom: - - Jason, sounds terrible OS2 - dunno, like how it's internet browser is... what's your most liked and most hated 'feature'? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Zima: on a sex drive scale of 1 to 10 I am a 50. Just so much you can do before you get REALLY shagged out. - * Zima: - - hahaha - * Phantom: - - too much of anything (yes even sex) is not as much fun! - * Jason_Perlow: - - The Web Explorer is extremely fast and is a multitasking application. It does everything Mosaic does, and more. The worst thing about it is you cannot categorize hotlists, its an endless string of stored sites. - - - sandy_g has joined the conversation.* - * Zima: - - I 've never had too much of sex. - * Zima: - - lo Sandy - * sandy_g: - - Hi - * Dwight: - - new acct sandy? - * Jason_Perlow: - - OS/2 is a superior system for multitasking. Unlike Win95 it preemptively multitsasks Windows apps and you have more control over the DOS environment. - * Jason_Perlow: - - OS/2 is a lot closer to NT than Win95. - * sandy_g: - - oops, bad typing, no caps - - - sandy_g has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - It also has a REAL object oriented interface, and the system object model translates accross the desktop to the applications. Windows95 has Shorcuts for the desktop and OLE 2.0 for the apps. In that sende Win95 really doesnt have object oriented technology. - * Jason_Perlow: - - MS is going to do the same thing OS/2 does in Cairo, but that is a few years off. - * Phantom: - - Jason - Win95 is not preemptive? better sell my MS stock I for onw have never got OS/2 to install correctly, although I haven't tried warp... - - - The_Vampire_lestat has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Win95 is only preemptive for Win95 (win32) apps. For DOS and Windows 3.1 applications it is not. - * Phantom: - - hi vamp - * Zima: - - lo lestat - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - hi all - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Win95 runs all windows 3.1 apps in a single virtual machine and a single memory address space. OS/2 preemptively multitaskes 3.1 apps and can, if needed, run the, in SEPARATE virtual machines. - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - * Zima: - - What the hell - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - * Phantom: - - Jason - naaw, Win95 is preemptive. it's just got mutexes around the 16 bit GDI... - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - okay, but Windows apps or dos apps dont get a separate thread like OS/2 does. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Oh my god, BIONIC WEDDING!!! - * JackR: - - Hello Dennis, Dennis, Dennis... - * DennisS: - - Sorry 'bout that ... clicked the icon too many times when nothing happend right away. - * JackR: - - Dennis, I do the same thing - * Zima: - - Dennis, I've done that plenty of times - * Phantom: - - Jason, you might want to do some reading. My understanding is that apps all get their own thread... - * DennisS: - - It looked a bit humorous, didn't it? - - - hackerpat has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Phantom: only win32 stuff does. - * Phantom: - - jason - you sure? maybe pview lies? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Windows 3.1 apps run in the same VDM and the same address space. Hence, the same thread. - * Jason_Perlow: - - You can ask Alec Saunders that. - - - NeilyBop has joined the conversation.* - * NeilyBop: - - Greetings all. - * Zima: - - lo Neily - * Jason_Perlow: - - This was done to conserve working set memory for Win95. They are considering a pentium kernal that will allow multiple VDM's for dos and windows 3.1 apps. - * Phantom: - - jason, I'll take your word on it for now... will look into it though... - * DennisS: - - Is there a Windows95 pre-release SDK available? - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - hi neily - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - dennis...yes - * DennisS: - - How does one procure such a thing ... the SDK, that is? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Dennis, most people got it during the first chicago beta with third party dev tools - * DennisS: - - I'll have to talk with our beta coordinator. - * Phantom: - - jason, found the relevant docs and you're right. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I got some AWESOME background bitmaps - * Jason_Perlow: - - they are great for tiling - * Phantom: - - AWESOME? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Phantom: I may be an OS/2er but I DO know my 95 internals. - * Jason_Perlow: - - YEah, they were originally designed for OS/2 but I converted them to windows bmps - * NeilyBop: - - A blasphemer in the ranks! :) - * Phantom: - - Jason, that's ok, we still like you - * Jason_Perlow: - - I dont spread FUD. I'm the first to speak up when something is deficient on ANY platform. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Like I HATE the single message queue in OS/2. Really annoying. - - - cjs has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - I also hate the fact that a lot of Win32 apps seem to be slower than Win16 ones. - * NeilyBop: - - I'll agree there. - * Phantom: - - I guess most popular OS's have their own little problems... - - - JackR has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - I am a UNIX bigot too. Boy, did I laugh by butt off when Bill Gates said NT would replace UNIX. - * NeilyBop: - - Give it time. - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - ok...so try playing two avi files at the same time in os/who...and then click on any other icon while they are playing...some multitasking.... - * Jason_Perlow: - - Neily, you must be kidding. UNIX is open systems. NT is not. - * Jason_Perlow: - - NT is cool. Great for network administration. But on most benchmarks its less stable and slower than most UNIX systems. - * Phantom: - - well, Win32 apps run faster than Win16 under NT. - * NeilyBop: - - Well, I'm not a Unix guru, but what exactly do you mean by open? How is NT not open? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Definitely user friendlier though - - - Zima has left the conversation.* - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - unix is so open is can't even find ONE standard... - * Jason_Perlow: - - NT isnt open because it is proprietary to MS. UNIX is open because everything is published and to develop for it is FREE. - * Phantom: - - anything is more user friendly than UNIX! - * Jason_Perlow: - - Vampire: that is the only problem. - * Jason_Perlow: - - UNIX needs coordination, not ownership. - * hackerpat: - - jw, Your unusally quite tonight. - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - only? so you mean that when i program i don't have a standard to write to...and you consider that a slight problem eh? - * NeilyBop: - - Well, NT is just as portable as Unix. Heck, we're gonna have NT on the PPC before IBM has OS/2 on it, and it's their own platform! - * Phantom: - - that's why noone's developing for UNIX - no standard. seems operating systems need a strong company to enforce standards these days... - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - * NeilyBop: - - That openess isn't necessarily a good thing...no standards. - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - there's really no arguing with a unix person...all religion and no logic... - * Jason_Perlow: - - No, its a BIG problem. I am not saying that UNIX is the answer to everyones problems, I am merely saying technologically after all these years it is STILL a better system than NT. After all it has 25 years of development and maturity. - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - you mean it's old? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I am not a UNIX person. Otherwise I would be on a UNIX box now. - * NeilyBop: - - I'll grant it that. Like I say, give NT time. In 25 years, the tables could easilt be turned. - - - jwstone has left the conversation.* - * Phantom: - - yes, i'll be the first to admit that UNIX is a good choice for big-iron WANs, but thats achangin - - - joe_loudhead has joined the conversation.* - * joe_loudhead: - - hi all - * Phantom: - - hi joe - - - Dwight has left the conversation.* - * NeilyBop: - - Hey Joe! - - - Petersta has joined the conversation.* - - - joe_loudhead has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Truly good coding is not dependent on when it was written. While there are other alternatives besides UNIX, it is the best Internet platform avaliable and will probably remain the mainstay of the Internet. - * Phantom: - - Jason, so how would you compare OS/2 to Win95? (I like your unbiased point of view so far BTW) - - - Petersta has left the conversation.* - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - i've worked with both...and i'm not too fond of os/2...no MAJOR complaints...but i don't like it as well.. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I have to be careful about talking about OS/2 here, because the last time I did that with any detail, my MSN connection mysteriously vaporized and moments later Win95 locked up. - * Phantom: - - ,G!> - * NeilyBop: - - :) - - - Brad_Thompson_Microsoft has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - No, this isnt a joke. - * Phantom: - - still laughing - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Howdy all - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - - - DennisS has joined the conversation.* - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - rofl - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - * NeilyBop: - - It's purely coincidence. - * Jason_Perlow: - - No, I REALLY mean this isnt a joke. - * DennisS: - - There I go again! - * Phantom: - - well, at least the OS 'breed' is improving with all of the competition... - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - wait for yourself next time dennis. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Maybe it was Billy monitoring it and he pushed the red "eject" button on his Big Brother command module. - * NeilyBop: - - I've seen similar behavior with certain "colorful" words on here. But it's only coincidence. - * Jason_Perlow: - - well isnt Warp a four letter word? - * DennisS: - - Just had an odd problem ... resized the toolbar with MSN running and the whole system went down the toilet. A real big wooosh! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - OS/2 is four letters, too - * The_Vampire_lestat: - - only if you've tried to set it up. - - - jcarman has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hi JC - * jcarman: - - hi all - * jcarman: - - Thought I'd pop in for a few, before I head off to read the BBS B.S. - * Phantom: - - hi brad, hi jc! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hi Phantom - * Jason_Perlow: - - I think if we merged Win95's win32 API and the OS foundation and object technolgy of OS/2 warp we would REALLY have something. - * Phantom: - - what's new in MS land? - * Phantom: - - jason - maybe next year - * Jason_Perlow: - - This whole OS war reminds me of the Star Trek episode where Kirk is split into two people. Split apart they are innefectual, but together they are strong. - * Phantom: - - so which half is MS? - * Jason_Perlow: - - MS and IBM will HAVE to reconcile someday. The industry will demand it. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Well, I had a question. I am getting a stress test ready that will stress Chatr here. - BUT, I don't want to make this stress program happen on popular Chat boards. - * jcarman: - - I might try running Warp on the laptop, but I wouldn't trust it to my main beastie. - - - hackerpat has left the conversation.* - * Phantom: - - zap us, we're beta testers! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - So, I am looking for the names of the more popular Chat rooms so I can avoid them. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Bt, you work for MS? - * Phantom: - - this is the most popular one that I'm aware of... - * NeilyBop: - - This is th emost popular one. - * jcarman: - - brad - you need helpers/assistance for your test, or is it software controlled? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - This one is obvious, and the Windows 95 Chat, but are there other popular chat rooms? - * NeilyBop: - - The other rooms seem to have weekly login times, and are pretty dead for the rest of the week. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason, yes I am a tester for MSN - * Phantom: - - i never see anyone in the other 'rooms'... - * Jason_Perlow: - - The service isnt old enough to have popular chat rooms yet. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Well, they have a Victorian Chat hour in one of these rooms somewhere... - * Phantom: - - jeesh. - * NeilyBop: - - Victorian? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I wonder if MS will let me start the OS/2 chat room. ROTFL - * jcarman: - - neil - they tell Secrets.... - * DennisS: - - Why not bug the Catholics at 6pm Wednesday ... they'll forgive you! - * jcarman: - - Vicotrian secrets - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Sort of like a British Tea. It starts at 5:30 or so. - * Phantom: - - jason - watch it, you'll be dumped - * jcarman: - - oops spellchecker's off - * Jason_Perlow: - - maybe I can pitch it as a Satanic religion or something - * NeilyBop: - - GLEAM has a chat going tonite. - * jcarman: - - well, later all. gonna go read mail. - * Phantom: - - g'night jc - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - I don't see why they wouldn't have an OS/2 chat room, but I only work here, I don't decide content - * NeilyBop: - - Nitey nite jc. - * jcarman: - - Hey brad - I reported a bug regarding a BBS here, causing me all kinds of havoc. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Goodnight JC - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - What's the bug, JC? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Neily, where is the GLEAM chat located? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I wonder if MS plans to make a Win16 client for MSN. - * NeilyBop: - - Gender Issues. - * jcarman: - - Brad - the Windows95 Beta General bbs. Once I've read ANY messages there, and leave the bbs, it GPFs, and so does Explorer. Sometimes, it causes the whole system to die - * Phantom: - - next to the OpenGL for EAM forum (j/k) - * Jason_Perlow: - - BTW, I've heard rumors about the latest Win32 support IBM is developing for OS/2. Runs native NT stuff. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Only in labs for now. - * Phantom: - - jason - really? wow. - * Jason_Perlow: - - IBM is working on Win95 support as we speak - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Have you written up a bug for this JC? - * Phantom: - - native NT apps on OS/2. now i've seen everything! - * Jason_Perlow: - - they intend to do the same thing to Win95 like they did to Win31 under OS/2 - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Thanks, Neily, Phantom - * jcarman: - - brad - yup. posted on CIS...er.... over Thanksgiving? - * Phantom: - - good night brad - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - gnight, Phantom - * NeilyBop: - - No prob. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Seamless Windows95 on the OS/2 4.0 desktop should be WILD - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - JC: Hopefully they will have this fixed by the next Beta. - - - tllong has joined the conversation.* - - - Sandy_G has joined the conversation.* - * jcarman: - - I wanna run native X apps under Windows95, with multi-boot for Linux, Windows, NT and OS/2! Oh yeah, and I want it ALL to function on my 540MB drive! - * tllong: - - hello - * NeilyBop: - - Sandy!!! - * NeilyBop: - - TLong!! - * Sandy_G: - - HI again - * Phantom: - - I'd better get going too. sorry to cut off the conversation Jason, I'd like to continue it another time, ok? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Phantom, no prob - * Phantom: - - bye. - - - Phantom has left the conversation.* - * jcarman: - - hi Sandy - I've noticed your postings on the WINBTU area :) - - - mmlee has joined the conversation.* - - - When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - JC: Why not just have 10 computers with every OS? - * Sandy_G: - - is that good or bad, jc ? - * tllong: - - lol - * Jason_Perlow: - - I got an awful lot of computers in this room - * jcarman: - - brad - working on it got 3 now. - * tllong: - - Hi when - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hi, Serous. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - howdy - * jcarman: - - cool handle! - * DennisS: - - Cool name! - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Everyone is counting, hold please... - * Sandy_G: - - LOL - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - All 64. - - - LittleKaren has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - 1 PowerMac, 1 HP workstation, One NextStation, 1 486-66, 1 SMP dual P54C. One SGI Indigo. - * Sandy_G: - - Hi, LK - * LittleKaren: - - Hi All - * NeilyBop: - - I only counted 63. OK, 1 more time. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Since we use proportional fonts, you could have used all caps to REALLY mess with MSN's mind - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Hi Little. - - - Cubfan has joined the conversation.* - * DennisS: - - Will you still feed me, will you still need me when I'm (limited to) 64? - * Cubfan: - - Hi all! - * Sandy_G: - - Hi, cub - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Neily, don't forget the colon on the end. - * jcarman: - - If I count work, I have an Integraph, a Sun Sparc, an IBM, a PB, a Toshiba, and a Dell - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - BTM->Nice idea. - * NeilyBop: - - OK, I recounted. It's 64 allright. Whew! - * jcarman: - - Dennis - ROFL! - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - I have noticed a few difficulties with 64, Brad - * Jason_Perlow: - - my Nextstation is my personal favorite. Not the most powerful machine but the interface is beautiful. - * Jason_Perlow: - - It was nice of Canon to let me take one home - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - I've seen some problems even with shorter names, but I bet 64 would cause even more! - - - LittleKaren has left the conversation.* - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Primarily on my side-signing on caused the most. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I'm in the process of developing HPFS drivers for Win95. - * jcarman: - - Jason - they sold a NextStation Cube here, at a local auction. $1500 for everything - monitor, Optical drive, all of it! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason, are you going to get Next Step on a faster machine? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I'll run NS on the HP soon. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - J->quite a project - - - The_Vampire_lestat has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - well, fortunately IBMers are doing most of the work as a pet project - * Jason_Perlow: - - read/write HPFS under Win95 should be cool - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Like to see it. - * Jason_Perlow: - - much better than that crazy win95 file system - * jcarman: - - well I gotta get going. Seeya all later - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Later jc - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Bye JC. - * Jason_Perlow: - - The new IBM DOS 7.0 is HPFS based - * DennisS: - - bye JC! - - - jcarman has left the conversation.* - - - Sandy_G has left the conversation.* - - - hackerpat has joined the conversation.* - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Anyone beta testing Win95 AND IBM DOS 7? - * Cubfan: - - Howdy pat. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Not that I know of... - * Jason_Perlow: - - when_ : me - * hackerpat: - - Hello Cub - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Two great tastes that taste great together - * Jason_Perlow: - - I hate the fact that NT cant use the Win95 file system - * Cubfan: - - It can't? - * Jason_Perlow: - - thats why I run in 8.3 compatability mode - * Jason_Perlow: - - No. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - I couldn't give up my DOS apps to run NT - * Jason_Perlow: - - Not yet, anyway. - * Cubfan: - - Surely it will eventually... soon? - * Jason_Perlow: - - But NT CAN use OS/2 HPFS. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - meaning 16 bit drivers - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, Are you the one that said resizing the status bar would cause a problem? - * Jason_Perlow: - - and if DOS will be able to use HPFS, and if OS/2 uses HPFS, and if NT uses HPFS, and if we are writing virtual WIn95 drivers for HPFS, life will be so simple. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Anyone else notice that the faces in the list of users look like frogs? - * tllong: - - what is HPFS? - * Cubfan: - - Pat, resizing the status bar caused my icons to get huge and chunky on my 1024x768 display. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Yeah, like frogs - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - High Performance File System - * tllong: - - thanks When - - - Lovejoy has joined the conversation.* - * NeilyBop: - - nee-deep. I'm hopping to another water lily for the evening. Y'all have fun! - - - NeilyBop has left the conversation.* - * DennisS: - - Yeah, I resized it on my last session earlier and got a stale resizing bar icon that just wouldn't go away. When it finally did, never could enter anything in; had to CTRL-ALT-DELete. - * Jason_Perlow: - - HPFS: The other long name file system that preceded Win95. BTW micosoft designed it. Why Win95 cant use it is beyond me. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - VXD's sound good. - * Jason_Perlow: - - OS/2 can use the DOS file system or HPFS which allows 256 character filenames. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Anyone know the three key sequence that disables Packard Bell computers (RE: today's InfoWorld) - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, I had to drop the signal. W95 came back with the status line on the left side with start at the top and the clock at the bottom. There's more. - * Cubfan: - - Dvorak's saying that NT will be using the Chicago interface two months after Win95's release. He may be right. - * Jason_Perlow: - - depends on the bios - * Jason_Perlow: - - Dvorak is a nut case, and I know him personally. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - But if you use HPFS, your existing WIN16 apps have problems. - - - mmlee has left the conversation.* - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - DV is very inconsistent. - * Cubfan: - - I know that he's a nut, and I've never met the guy. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Will Zachmann is also a personal friend. - * Cubfan: - - That "devil with the blue dress on"? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Dvorak has more than a few nuts and bolts loose. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - One personality says one thing, another personality refutes it. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Serious: Problems? Can Win16 apps that do any File stuff work at all? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Win16 apps work fine in HPFS. - - - mmlee has joined the conversation.* - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - JP:how? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason, "That do file stuff" - * Jason_Perlow: - - JP, the file system is passed via a virtual driver - * DennisS: - - Pat, I did get a few dialog boxes saying that the application has failed to respond to the system and gave me a Wait and a End Task (?) button. I selected Wait and could read and see responses, but not enter anything in. Eve n when I told it to end the task, it didn't so I 3-fingered it. - * Cubfan: - - Jason... who do you write for? - - - Lovejoy has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - teh Win-Os/2 subsystem handles it. - - - Wonder_Worker has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cub, I supply Ziff Davis with a lot of OS/2 related info. - - - mmlee has left the conversation.* - * Cubfan: - - Oh... letters to the editor? - * Jason_Perlow: - - At the moment I dont write for anyone but PC Week has offered me a column. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - But what if you run OS/2 for Windows, which does not include WIn-OS/2 - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason: So are you an OS/2 fan? - * Jason_Perlow: - - No actually, Bill machrone and MJM talk to me frequently to get information. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Brad: Yep. - * Jason_Perlow: - - A certified OS/2 nut case, I am. - * Cubfan: - - It'd be nice if IBM would talk a bit, too. - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, I had the status line at the top of the screen at one point. Was clicking around to try to crash the system. Finally got it back to the bottom of the screen. ODD THING! It was working in all positions. May be that on e can position it on purpose... - * Jason_Perlow: - - IBM has reason to be wary of the press. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - I've got an OLD version of OS/2 running a server here in my office. - * Cubfan: - - Whatever. - * Jason_Perlow: - - And i bet it STILL runs well. - * Cubfan: - - Don't want to start this "poor IBM" stuff here... save it for Zachmann. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Will is also somewhat disallusioned. I will jump ship tomorrow if OS/2 fails. - * DennisS: - - Pat, hmmm. I just resized it along the bottom and it died. Also got After Dark 3.0 running, if that matters? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Hower, I dont think it will fail. Win95 and OS/2 will coexist. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Oh yes, it never gives me any problems, but since it's 2.01, the interface really isn't nice to work with after using the newer versions of Windows. - * Cubfan: - - Better put on that life jacket. - - - Lovejoy has joined the conversation. - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, You have After Dark running on Windows 95? - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - I've experienced problems with AD 3.0 and WIN95 - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Lost my SB pro while it was loaded. - * DennisS: - - Pat, yes I do! (Is that a problem?) - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - for one... - * Jason_Perlow: - - Brad: the OS/2 3.0 interface makes Win95 look like a kludge in comparison. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Them's fighting words. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Never having seen OS/2 3.0, I can't comment. - * Wonder_Worker: - - JP: does OS/2 3.0 crashes on you? - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, Dunno'. I know it is a problem on AOL and Prodigy. AOL has tried to write around the problem in the last Beta, (now released as 2.0) It has a bad habit of grabbing the IRQ's at a tender time on Nets. - - - Lovejoy has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Here we go again into the same argument about how pertty things are versus how well and elegantly they work. I have to admit Win95 is extremely pretty. - * Jason_Perlow: - - WW: OS/2 3.0 RARELY crashes on me. - * Cubfan: - - It's also pretty early in the beta. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Who's arguing? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Repeating for newcomers: I am looking for the names of the more popular Chat rooms on the BBS. Do any of you use any other Char rooms besides this one? - * DennisS: - - Pat, not using AOL, but have been using Prodigy every day for about a month under Win95 with (surprise!) no problems! - * Cubfan: - - I've never seen anybody in any room but this one. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cub, this thing has been in test for two YEARS. I consider that to be a pretty late beta. Unless you are saying it is early in the beta because you expect the cycle to continue for ANOTHER two years. - * tllong: - - Brad: I would if I ever found any activity in them - * hackerpat: - - Brad, Tried engineering, art and Windows 95. No body home....... - * Cubfan: - - Sheesh... - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Brad->I think I found some action in Windows 95 Beta General Chat before. But not since that time - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Only once - - - joe-parness has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason, I think you need to define "Test". Win95 has been in _Development_ for two years. NOT Test. - * Cubfan: - - Exactly. - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Amen. - * Wonder_Worker: - - Jason: we use OS/2 2.1 on a "grown-up embedded" application. For that, it has little problems and was the only multi-tasking multi-threading game in town for a while. Unfortunately, OS/2 3.0 doesn't do TCP/IP over ethernet yet. - * Cubfan: - - I can't get simple network connections at all with OS/2... unless I want to shell out megabucks to Novell. No thanks. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Brad, I have personally been a pre-release tester for just short of two years. Even the beta cycle has been around for almost a year. - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, Prodigy may have a work-around for AD. AOL, on DL and UL, were planning to turn off AD in YOUR computer on any file trasnfer and then back on. The Beta ended before I could find out if that is what they did. Prodigy may be doing the same thing. Have you downloaded many files lately from *P.????? - * Cubfan: - - I guess IBM doesn't think that's important. - - - joe-parness has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - WW: you can do it no problem if you use IBM TCPIP 2.0 with the lastest service pack. I have 800 stations running on it that way. - * Cubfan: - - A year's not that long for an operating system... or do you think it is? - * Wonder_Worker: - - Brad: I think there's this mis-conception that you can only be in one chat at a time; the user interface tends to promote that (instead of multiple topics). - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Moot - * DennisS: - - Have done a few downloads from *P with no problems. Not much, but a few. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I use Win95 with prodigy every day. No prob. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I hang out in the OPERATING SYSTEMS forum of COMPUTER CLUB BB. - * Wonder_Worker: - - Jason: Is this a service pak for 3.0? Is it available via the net? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - However, Pre-Release testing is more part of the development process. We toss it out to select people to get their reactions. BIG changes happen during the Pre-release development cycle. How much of Win 95 has really changed while you have been "testing"? - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Does anyone else? - * Jason_Perlow: - - wonder worker: install IBM TCPIP 2.0 and get the pack from software.watson.ibm.com - * DennisS: - - Pat, Come to think of it, the last time I did download from *P, AD did come on but I didn't have any problems. - * Jason_Perlow: - - its in the TCPIP directory - * Jason_Perlow: - - its four disks - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Unless your computer is very slow. - * Jason_Perlow: - - the new IBM web explorer is located on ftp01.ny.us.ibm.net - * Jason_Perlow: - - in PUB/WebExplorer - * Cubfan: - - Brad, the "font smoothing" is gone (I rather liked that). And I can't find the way I could drag dialogs on the screen without just dragging the outline. What gives? - * When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously: - - Probably too much overhead - * Jason_Perlow: - - Trust me, it works VERY well. Its my preferred internet platorm right now. Win95 ppp is just too unstable., - * Cubfan: - - I haven't gotten it to work at all with my provider. How's OS/2's ppp? - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, They may have a work-around also. I left *P about a year ago. It was a bear of a problem then. Glad to hear they seem to have it worked out. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Wonder, I don't know the answer. I am not much of a support person, just a tester. - - - When_MS_said_sixty_four_characters_or_less_I_took_them_seriously has left the conversation. - * Jason_Perlow: - - OS/2 SLIP is extremely stable. PPP support will be released next month in a update. - * Cubfan: - - Oh, that song again. Yawn. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Cub, Tlong, Hacker, thank you for ypour responses (late, but better then noghting) - * Wonder_Worker: - - Jason, thanks for the info, will look into it. - * Wonder_Worker: - - however, Windows95 PPP has worked well for me since M6. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I happen to like Win95 a lot. But for mission critical it cant touch OS/2. - * Cubfan: - - Geez, who does "mission critical" with a beta release? - * Jason_Perlow: - - NT is MS's mission critical OS. IBM has one OS that fits both bills of desktop OS, high end, and server. Its scalable. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Cub: Touche! - * hackerpat: - - Brad, Did you know that you can CLICK off all the screens, then never get back on? Have to sign off and come back up. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cub, the architecture ITSELF does not allow for mission critical. - * Cubfan: - - Say more. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hacker: Just double click on the "The Microsoft Network" Icon after you have shut down all screens. This gives you the categories box again. You should still be logged on. - - - stevemc has joined the conversation.* - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - well, i'm back.. dinner.. well wasn't terrific, as usual - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - If you don't have the MSN Icon on the desktop, then MSN is not installed properly. - * hackerpat: - - Brad, Nope, I can get a dialog box that will let me continue a blank screen or sign-off. :-) - * Cubfan: - - Wife cooked, Operator? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Only a fool would run mission critical stuff on Windows95, even after it is released. It is not designed for heavy client-server enviroments with heavy connectivity and large amounts of uptime required. Even Win95's staunche st proponents are trying to argue its better for usability reasons and not mission critical reasons. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - cub: uh.. no, Marriott food services :) - * Jason_Perlow: - - NT has always been MS's mision critical OS. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Even Steve Ballmer said that to me personally. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: ok, that's reasonable, but there are a LOT of non-mission critical people out there - * Cubfan: - - I'd agree with that, Jason. "Mission Critical" is the job for NT. You'd hear that from BG himself, I'm sure. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hacker, I think Explorer must be dead if this happens, then. If you can get this to repeat, then definitely enter a bug against this! - * Cubfan: - - Marriott? Dorm food? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MS food. - * DennisS: - - OK, is Windows 3.1 or Windows for Workgroups 3.11 ok for "mission critical"? - - - MZemina has joined the conversation.* - * Cubfan: - - Has been for me. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - cub: no here at MS, groups in a crunch sometimes get catered dinner.. for us it's been several months.. food is so-so but free is free - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - I am debating running home for food instead of MS - Marriott food. - * Wonder_Worker: - - Brad, what's MS food? Jolt with Latte cocktail?:) - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - brad: new Taco Bell is open :) - * Cubfan: - - Anything free from MS is to be savored. - * tllong: - - OM:read in the paper food at MS was OK. Especially the pizza - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - cub: hmm after a few days, you'd change your tune :) - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jolt, Chocalate covered esspresso beans, Mountain Doo , and don't forget the sugar! - * hackerpat: - - Brad, Right about EXPLORER. If it pooped out, no status line. I have the status line but can click myself to the back side of the moon. Will repeat it several times and submit a bug report. Lot of intresting verbage tonight. Eh??? :-) - * Jason_Perlow: - - I don't see how you can argue that a desktop OS shouldnt meet mission-critical standards. Do you want to be the person that is working on a presentation or a document for three hours, and then have a system crash and lose yo ur work? - * Wonder_Worker: - - Yummy, yum... - * MZemina: - - Isn't ANY take out food eaten in the office *old* after six months? - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - tllong: well, you could argue I'm spoiled, but the catered food is pretty unexciting and the same thing every week gets old. but the cafeterias aren't bad - * Jason_Perlow: - - An operating system should stay up if a application crashes, so at least at least you are not forced to suffer the extra downtime. - * Cubfan: - - I don't think we'll see this happening, Jason. If so, Chicago should fail... and will. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - tlong, the food is great for the first 6 months you work here, then it's pretty good for the the next year. by the end of year two, the food is getting barely OK, by the end of 5 years, I really don't like eating it at all! - * MZemina: - - What time will Adrian King come to chat on Wednesday? - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: people should save their work anyway.. NO OS can prevent power failures :) - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hacker: Definitely! Much more interesting then Froggy talk - * tllong: - - well, you folks got it good. I'm lucky if the roach coach stops at our shop - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - tllong: heh.. Marriott food was 10 times worse at school :) - * Cubfan: - - Hey, I should send my wife over to cook... then you'd appreciate the real stuff. - * MZemina: - - Froggy talk? - * Cubfan: - - From Marriott. - - - Blade has joined the conversation.* - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - brb - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cub, Win95 is the successor to Win 3.1 in more than just numbering. Many of the magazines are finally admitting this now, but due to excessive MS spin doctoring they are trying to make the hybrid 16-32 bit code and semi-prot ective mode nature of Win95 into a FEATURE instead of a weakness. - * MZemina: - - MS people - has the "Set-top" group started any SDK work yet? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MZ: What do the blue things to your right look like? - * hackerpat: - - Brad, Much more... Did you catch DennisS's (lot of s's), comment on changing the size of the status line causing him problems? (Me too, big weird problems) - * Jason_Perlow: - - BTW, there was a ORGINAL plan for Win95's architecture which was never implemented. And it would have been a better one than the one we have now. - * Cubfan: - - Exactly how is it a weakness. Once we start seeing 32-bit apps, who'll know the difference? - * MZemina: - - Brad, Where's Waldo? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hacker: Sorry didn't pay any attention, I was flaming Jason - * Blade: - - Brad, aren't you a vp or something at Microsoft? - * Wonder_Worker: - - later, guys (and gals), gotta get a coffee. oo - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MZ: Eh? - - - Wonder_Worker has left the conversation.* - * hackerpat: - - Brad, Give it a try with CHAT in full screen. BE SURE you are through for the evening or just like to sign on a lot. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Blade, no, just a trench dweller. I think you are talking about Brad Silverburg - * MZemina: - - Brad, Not the MZ at the top of exe code! Would be nice to take credit for that though. - * Blade: - - Oh, sorry. - * Jason_Perlow: - - The ORIGINAL Windows 4.0 was VASTLY different than Windows95. It was much more like NT or OS/2. - * Cubfan: - - Then came NT. - * MZemina: - - Jason, what was the time frame between Windows 4.0 alpha and Chicago alpha? - * Blade: - - I still perfer the name Windows 4.0, rather than Windows 95. What happens when 1996 rolls around? Change the screen to Windows 96? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MZ: Sorry, I am still not catching on. - * Cubfan: - - Upgrade notices. - * DennisS: - - Blade, I agree - Windows 4 is better than Windows95. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Windows 4.0, or NT Lite, was going to be a NT kernal specifically coded to the intel microporcessor without a hardware abstraction layer and the C2., OS/2 and POSIX feaures. It would have featured the new interface we have n ow and would have been COMPLETELY 32 bit. No thunking and would have been 100 percent protected mode. - * MZemina: - - Brad, I thought you maybe referencing my MZ to the MZ that did the code structure (I forget his name). Maybe you are referring to something else? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason, then what about 16 bit apps? - * Jason_Perlow: - - However, they chose to evolve the Windows 3.1 code base as opposed to strip down NT. - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, Be sure to post a bug report on your resizing the status line. - * Jason_Perlow: - - the 16 bit apps woudl have been supported through WOW like NT does. - * DennisS: - - Hacker, will do! - * Jason_Perlow: - - It would have been a streamilined NT with a newer interface. - * Blade: - - Anyone know how much upgrading 16-apps to 32-apps is going to cost the end-user? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Essentially, it would have been something like OS/2. - * Cubfan: - - It's taken what, 3 versions for OS/2 to completely purge itself of 16bit code? Give me a break, nobody but the geeks will be able to tell the difference. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: you certainly do alot of reading! :) - * hackerpat: - - Dennis, Brad, Later. Gotta' lay it down hard........ - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MZ: I was just using your initials to chat. When you asked about the froggies, I was pointing out the funky "faces" that are associated with our names. They look like frogs. - * Jason_Perlow: - - And if it DID come to pass, I would have jumped ship on OS/2 a LONG time ago. - * MZemina: - - Do any of you MSers know how to gain info regarding the Set-Top SDK? - * Cubfan: - - Sure, it's fast enough... but it's 16bit. - - - hackerpat has left the conversation.* - - - CMcCorvey has joined the conversation.* - * CMcCorvey: - - hello - * Cubfan: - - I can hear them already... In fact, Jason's started already. - * Jason_Perlow: - - I dont just do a lot of reading. I know a LOT of people in the industry, and a lot of former Microsofters. - * MZemina: - - Brad, To me they look like Where's Waldo fame. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: ah.. that would explain it - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MZ: Sorry, MZ, I've not heard of the Set Top SDK. - * Blade: - - Maybe in the future, we can design or select our own faces. - * MZemina: - - Blade, - * Jason_Perlow: - - BTW, a lot of the original NT and Chicago development teams no longer work for MS. - * Cubfan: - - Ew. - * Blade: - - Yes? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Hello CM - * Blade: - - MZ??? - * Cubfan: - - Wanna talk "former" IBM employees? - * MZemina: - - Blade, Design our own faces - in fact to CHANGE expession would be GREAT! - * CMcCorvey: - - brad: I can't get downlds to work at all. Any suggestions? - * DennisS: - - Jason, are you saying that it's going to be Windows95 on the home PC and Windows NT on the work PC? - * Jason_Perlow: - - I know plenty of former IBM employees. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - CM, Where at? - * Cubfan: - - Sounds good to me, Dennis... hope it happens that way. - * Jason_Perlow: - - According to MS, that is what their strategy is. - * Jason_Perlow: - - We will see if it actually happens that way. - * Blade: - - I know, but do you know how much time it will take?? I have a icon editor in PC Tools it usually takes me 1 hour to design a decent icon!! - - - stevemc has left the conversation.* - * CMcCorvey: - - I've tried downloading files within messages left by others as well as out of the general files library - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - CM: do you have a network installed? - * CMcCorvey: - - Nope. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - What error do you get when DLing from the General Library? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Put it this way, a NT lite with identical API's and identical device driver model would have made life a lot easier for Windows developers. MS decided to do it the hard way. - * MZemina: - - Blade, what about drop in mouths, eyes, etc. THAT way it could be drag and drop face! - * Cubfan: - - Not for them. - * DennisS: - - I doubt that it will ... if Windows95 is cheaper, I can see the managers at my company opting for that on the desktop. Also, the worker bees will gripe if apps at work aren't compatible with apps at home. - * CMcCorvey: - - The FTM window pops up and the request was allegedly queued, but nothing is in the queue and nothing gets transfered - - - BoriquaKid has joined the conversation.* - * Blade: - - Great idea!! :) - * Cubfan: - - Jason, can you say "upgrade." - * BoriquaKid: - - Hola ! ! ! - * Jason_Perlow: - - The only concern was that NT lite would have required a mininum of 8mb of ram to run decently, much like OS/2. However I dont know ANYONE who runs any worthwile Windows system on 4mb. - * Blade: - - Hi Kid! - - - Panzer has joined the conversation.* - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - CM: That's your problem.. For some reason, you cannot D/L without network software installed - * Cubfan: - - You don't know many folks, Jason. The vast majority of people running Windows have 4 megs or even less. - * CMcCorvey: - - Jason: and can anyone say theat Win95 perf on 4MB is really worth having... It's really slow on some 8MB systems - * tllong: - - CM:there is a bug. You must install a network in "my computer" before you'll be able to download - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cubfan, that sounds like a vaguely anti-MS comment. :) Are those allowed here? - * Panzer: - - hello all... - * CMcCorvey: - - Oh, gotta have a network? Hmmm... - * Blade: - - It's certainly slow on my 8 meg system. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - CM: I don't know the answer. Please post a question to the Bulletin Boards BBS in "The Microsoft Network Beta\\Beta Support" forum. - * Jason_Perlow: - - CM, agreed. But OS/2 is unbearable on 4mb as well. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - CM: yes it's a bug... c'est lavie - * CMcCorvey: - - OK... I'll try that. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - CM: ok good luck! it should fix it - * Jason_Perlow: - - Any advanced OS needs 8mb. NT still requires a lot more than OS/2, but an NT Lite would have been its equal. - * Cubfan: - - Hey, everybody stop typing so fast. - * DennisS: - - OH, well, time for Letterman. 'Night fellow beta testers! - * Jason_Perlow: - - niters dennis - * Blade: - - Night - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Thanks, tlong, OMC, I will remember the bug next time. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - brad: yeah it's on the File Transfer BBS.. - * Cubfan: - - I agree, Jason. Win95 with the "Windows" moniker will be just enough to sell both upgrades in software *and* memory. - * Jason_Perlow: - - BTW, Ballmer was VERY pro the NT lite idea. - * Blade: - - Anyone know where jwstone is? - - - DennisS has left the conversation.* - * CMcCorvey: - - well, off to bed... 6:00 comes rather early these days... - - - CMcCorvey has left the conversation.* - * Cubfan: - - Nobody wants "lite" anything. The idea stunk, and I'm glad they dropped it. The name, not the architecture. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Ballmer runs NT on his personal machine. He does NOT use Win95. He told me "I beleive in eating my own dog doodo." - * Panzer: - - Jason: Win95 is not complete... - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Jason, Anti-MS better be OK, but I bet MSers can't do it - * Panzer: - - I run Win95 Beta-2 at work... - * MZemina: - - Speaking of bugs, Has everyone else seen the problem with the calendar. Use the scroll bar and watch the info "hiccup" - * Cubfan: - - He knows that... he's getting kicks here, Panzer. - * BoriquaKid: - - Sorry to say Jason, we saw Ballmer here last Sat. - * Cubfan: - - Hope to meet him here again. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - BK: What did he say? - * Blade: - - How many bugs have you guys detected? I've detected 11 so far. - * BoriquaKid: - - And as we all know, MSN doesn't run on NT. - * Cubfan: - - I stopped counting. - - - rburnett has joined the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cubfan: get some language skills. "Lite" is just a word that was passed around, it would have been called Windows 4.0 or even what it is called now. I am arguing they should have a NT Lite in concept, not in name. - * BoriquaKid: - - He was just carrying on a normal conversation. - * Cubfan: - - I agree. - * BoriquaKid: - - With the flow...... - * Jason_Perlow: - - What DOES MSN run on? Os/2? Unix? - * Cubfan: - - Yes. - * BoriquaKid: - - What are you running it on? - * Cubfan: - - - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - he means the backend ;-) - * Cubfan: - - Coming to a computer near you... they should hire me for the slogans. - * Panzer: - - Where is everyone from? - * Cubfan: - - Springfield, IL - * Blade: - - McLean, Virginia - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Panzer: Redmond, WA - * tllong: - - Seattle - * MZemina: - - Panzer, Tulsa OK - * Jason_Perlow: - - one of the biggest beefs that hardware manufacturers have is they have to write SEPARATE devide drivers for Win95 and WinNT. If there was an NT lite, they wouldnt of had to worry about that. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: would you believe NT.. this is what i've heard - * Panzer: - - Murfreesboro, TN - * rburnett: - - kent, wa - * Cubfan: - - I have the firm belief that the two will come together in the very near future. - * Blade: - - Brad, have you heard of any news about the upgrading policy (the price) to upgrade from MS 16-bit apps to 32-bit apps? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Yes, as CAIRO, but that is not the NEAR future. It may not even be this century, - * Panzer: - - Cubfan: I share that belief in Cairo. - * Cubfan: - - NT development and Win95 dev aren't all that different. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Repeating for the new people: I am looking for the names of any other Chat conferences that are popular at all. If they are popular once a week, I would like to know. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Blade: No, I haven't - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cairo is like the Holy Grail. Its also like the retuning of the Messiah. Win95 isnt even out the door and people are talking about what is supposed to replace it. - * MZemina: - - To all, What about the time that Adrian King will be online? - * Panzer: - - It's my understanding that to earn the Win95 logo, you must also run on NT...? - * Cubfan: - - In fact, they're nearly one and the same... by release they will be the same: Apps that run on Win95 will work perfectly on NT and vice-versa. - * Blade: - - Well, I better log off, and do my homework. Nice chatting, guys! Bye! - - - Blade has left the conversation.* - * BoriquaKid: - - BT: Live support, I can't remember which other... - * Panzer: - - C Ya Blade. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Bye Blade - * Jason_Perlow: - - Panzer, that is an attempt by MS to bully ISV's and developers into getting scared of them. We are going to see a lot of apps by BIG ISV's that will not be Windows certified. - * tllong: - - MZ:I think 5:30 PST. Its in on line today - * Cubfan: - - You didn't hear that here, Jason. Nobody's doing that... it's the same old OS/2 diatribe that bores us on the other networks. - - - rburnett has left the conversation.* - * Jason_Perlow: - - It isnt just a diatrible by OS/2 people. It was printed in inforworld and a lot of other trade magazines. It is a GENUINE concern. - * tllong: - - Well folks, it's time to go rustle up some vittles. G'nite all - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Infoworld? Not even IBM likes infoworld! - * Cubfan: - - Worshipping the "Holy Grail" of Cairo? - * Jason_Perlow: - - It is very easy to write an app that runs on either NT or Win95. But very tough to write one that runs on both. - - - tllong has left the conversation.* - * Panzer: - - What I hear is people saying, "How come we have to write to both Win95 and NT now?", then the same ones saying, "Why should we have to write to both?" - * BoriquaKid: - - What does OS/2 come with these days besides OS/2? - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: not true! I wrote an app that worked perfectly on both with absolutely no changes - * MZemina: - - Has any one else had problems with nonresponsive cursors? I have the animated cursor loaded. Most of the time it works fine. But when I work in MSN the default idle cursor pops up once and awhile. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Boriqua: IBM threw a lot of stuff in it. - * Cubfan: - - The same argument that keeps OS/2 from catching on. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: how hard is that? - * Cubfan: - - The answer to your question, Jason, is "sales." Why should I develop for both? Because people want both. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Yeah, mindciime, but did you use any of Win95's special interface API's or the registry? Do that, and you will have problems. And if you write an program that does protocol level stuff, you will also have to rewreie large se ctions of code. - * BoriquaKid: - - Please name me a couple of features? Network? Variaty of video drivers? - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: yes but "very tough" is too general a statement.. be more specific when you say such things - * MZemina: - - Can we have multiple chats going on at the same time? I noticed that I can go in and check MSN Today while still chatting - VERY VERY NICE! - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - MZ: sure can - * BoriquaKid: - - It's like the Eveready Bunny, the list keeps growing and growing, and growing..... - * Cubfan: - - Don't come back in without leaving, or you'll be cloned, MZ. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Are you trying to tell me that people want to go out and and pay hundreds of dollars for the same application TWICE with only minor differences between the code? Who do you hang out with that does that? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - MZ: As many as you want. I think I crashed my machine after I got 28 chats going though. - * Cubfan: - - Come on, Jason. We're already seeing apps that run on both in the same package. It's not that tough. - * Panzer: - - Are there any working professionals here? - * MZemina: - - Along with the unresponsive cursor comes the fact that it seems that I try to launch an app and nothing happens. Anyone else? - * Jason_Perlow: - - Cubfan, because MS wrote the damn apps. They know what to do not to break an application. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - jason: huh? didn't say anything about that.. just saying blanket statements give people the wrong idea sometimes.. i.e. it is NOT very tough to write an app that works on both platforms.. it may be harder to write Excel on b oth platforms but that is something else - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Panzer: What kind of professionals? - * Cubfan: - - Then again, I know some SmartSuite OS.2 users... - * Panzer: - - B_T_M: Computer industry... - - - Sandy_G has joined the conversation.* - - - Sandy_G has left the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Panzer: SDE/T - - - rburnett has joined the conversation.* - * MZemina: - - Hi Sandy - Hows things tonight? - * BoriquaKid: - - Yo SAndy, we have a live one for ya..... - * Jason_Perlow: - - Yes. I am Seniror Systems Analyst for Canon USA corporate HQ in New York. - * Panzer: - - B_T_M: SDE/T??? - * Cubfan: - - Here we go: "MS=Antichrist," says the OS/2 user. - * MZemina: - - WHO - Sandy sure didn't stay long Was it something I said? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Software Design Engineer in Test - * Jason_Perlow: - - boy, what an intelligent comment. - * Cubfan: - - - * Panzer: - - Ahh...yet another acronym... - * Panzer: - - Jason: Are you a faithful OS/2 user? - * Cubfan: - - - * Jason_Perlow: - - here is another one. Syncophant=brown nose - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - where would we be without acronyms :) - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - Panzer, ya gotta get it right, now. That's TLA, or maybe YATLA - - - rburnett has left the conversation.* - * Cubfan: - - I'm thinking PITA right now. - * BoriquaKid: - - So jason, does OS/2 have drivers for Canon printer? - * Panzer: - - B_T_M: Only yours was no TLA, it was TLA/L! - * Jason_Perlow: - - Panzer, I run the most successful OS/2 users group in the US. I was thinking of changing it into a multi-OS advanced user group, but didtn get enough interest. - * Jason_Perlow: - - Boriqua, all our lasers are the same as HP because we make the HP lasers. The Bubblejet drivers were released recently. - * Panzer: - - Jason: For some jobs OS/2 cannot be beat. We have several users who would die if they ran Win-anything on their desktops! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: - - OS people seem to be the most diehard. It's kind of weird, too. When you get one to jump ship, it's practically headline news - * Panzer: - - Jason: ...or kill whoever tries to take it away! - * Jason_Perlow: - - I have been known in the OS/2 community as a a multiplatformist and a lot of OS/2 zealots hate me for it. This has been from day one. - * Panzer: - - I see all OS's as tools...we need most of them. - * Operation_Mindcrime: - - brad: yep.. OS's kind of attach themeselves to a user and it's hard to let go...but everyone has their preference and evangelizing usually doesn't do anygood - * Cubfan: - - yes. - * Jason_Perlow: - - They say you have to be on one side, or the other. But that is STUPID if you don't work for either company. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * I just try to pick and choose the best of both worlds. I have Unix utilities on my NT and Windows machines. And of course anyone who writes an OS/2 app usually writes a version for NT or Windows, too. - * Panzer: * Any competition is most healthy! - * MZemina has left the conversation.* - * BoriquaKid: * You got a point BTM.. - * Cubfan: * I'll second that. If it weren't for OS/2, we'd still be running Windows 3.0. - * Panzer: * I do not believe we would see Win95 without OS/2. - * Operation_Mindcrime: * yes that's true isn't it? - * Panzer: * OS's are a lot like programming langs, they all have their place in our toolkits. - * Cubfan: * If they allow dual-boot. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Cub: Dual? How about quintuple boot? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * - * Panzer: * heh heh heh...Cubfan, you have quite the wit tonight! - * Jason_Perlow: * Thre are a lot of things I like about MS products, but there are thing about marketing and technogy directions that I find objectionable. I also feel that to have a single person's vision trying to direct the entire technolo gical base of teh world to be EXTREMELY dangerous and undesireable. - * Cubfan: * Who needs it when you have Fdisk. - * Blue_Feather has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Good evening Blue. - * Blue_Feather: * made it! - * Panzer: * ahoy, Blue_Feather! - * BoriquaKid: * Wassup BF ! ! ! - * Operation_Mindcrime: * hey BF - * Jason_Perlow: * There are other talented people at MS lower down that a better grasp of reality than BG. - * Cubfan: * Hi, Blue. - * Blue_Feather: * install hell - * Panzer: * B_F: any better now? - * Blue_Feather: * H No - * Cubfan: * Boy, Jason... you're trying to hit all the buttons tonight. - * Operation_Mindcrime: * jason: well BillG is not omnipotent.. other people's input can affect him just like anyone else - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Jason, it might be dangerous and undesireable, but it's a fact of life right now. How would we change it? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * And I mean this serously. How would you depose King Bill? - * Cubfan: * Gosh, I hope Bill didn't hear that... it might really hurt. - * Panzer: * BillG has led the industry well. Why is there a fear of him? If they produce good products at a fair price they will dominate...it's called capitalism. - * Blue_Feather: * H E L P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - * Cubfan: * And keeps Wallmart from ruling the planet. - * Jason_Perlow: * Cub, just because I am on the Microsoft network, doesnt mean I have to kiss butt. MY feedback is valuable as a corporate MIS officer. I know MS products will always be used at my company, but its a matter of how much or how little. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * What's wron, Blue? - * jwstone has joined the conversation.* - * Panzer: * If they produce s*i*, they will lose... - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Howdy, Jeff! - * Cubfan: * Nobody's asking you to kiss anything, Jason. - * Blue_Feather: * cant get rid of penmouse and load MS mouse!!!! - * Operation_Mindcrime: * panzer: someone once said that only competitors fear MS and consumers like MS - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Jeff, I am looking for the names of Chats that are popular, even if only once a week. Do you know the names of any? - * Cubfan: * BF, try using the "blue feather" instead. - * Cubfan: * - * jwstone: * Hi all. - * BoriquaKid: * Yo JW ! ! - * Cubfan: * Hi, JW. - * Blue_Feather: * Jeff Hi - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Blue: Sorry, can't help. - * Panzer: * O_M: They would do well to fear their competition, it will strengthen them! - * Jason_Perlow: * As for the King Bill issue, I am not talking about deposing anyone. It makes more sense that the industry as a WHOLE should be driven by competing companies whose visions clash with each other and force each other to improve . Until recently this has not been the case, and the lack of that competition was an integral part of that man's vsion. - * jwstone: * Brad--first I'd guess that the items noted by Online Today will get traffic. The rest is a crap shoot. - * Panzer: * B_T_M: I was in Gender Issues Chat earlier with three or four others... - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Thanks, Panzer - * Cubfan: * What happens when one becomes so successful that his competition is almost insignificantly weak. Take away that success? - * Jason_Perlow: * Competition is the lifeblood of any industry, especially computer technology. If you remove it we all as may lie down in our graves - * Panzer: * B_T_M: This is by far the most lively! - * Cubfan: * Prop up a competitor? - * jwstone: * Genders & New Age will be active tonight for a bit, but that's about it other than here methinks. - * Jason_Perlow: * NO. That competition was removed/hampered in a non-legal manner. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Does the SF chats get any action? - * Cubfan: * I'm sure BG would LOVE for someone to step up and compete. - * jwstone: * Such as what Jason? The DOJ doesn't agree with this assessment. - * Panzer: * I don't think competition is going to die. What about NextSTEP? - * Cubfan: * Ha. Good one Panzer. - * BoriquaKid: * NO JW, Jason just wants something to whine about..... - * Cubfan: * Or weren't you joking. - * Panzer: * Cubfan: Danke... - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * In an interview with Wired Magazine, Bill Gates mentions that he thinks there might be another large company coming down the pike that could even bury Microsoft. - * jwstone: * NextStep is a good idea. The question is, why isn't it catching on? - * Jason_Perlow: * ERgo, contracts were broken, threats were made, unfairly limiting deals were made, and binding contracts with illegal clauses were also made. - * Jason_Perlow: * Hopefully that age is over at MS and the industry can return to a normal manner that will result in better products. - * Panzer: * I see Steve Jobs as this lone guy standing off the beaten path saying, "Hey, everyone, look over here!" - * Cubfan: * So said your friend Will, I guess. - * jwstone: * Jason--prove this. If the DOJ hasn't a problem, what makes you think *you're* right, when truckloads of data satisfied the DOJ? - * The_Vampire_lestat has joined the conversation.* - * Tinkerbell has joined the conversation.* - * Panzer: * TinkerBell? - * Cubfan: * Hi, Tink. - * Tinkerbell: * Hello all. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Hello Tinkerbell - * jwstone: * Hi Tink. - * Jason_Perlow: * Trust me. The truth will come out someday. - * Tinkerbell: * What's being talked about? - * Panzer: * Oh, boy! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Everybody is jumping on everything Jason says right now - * Cubfan: * - * jwstone: * JP--Right. Right next to 'proof' that MS is a front for the Illuminati. - * Panzer: * jump...jump...jump... - * Tinkerbell: * Ohtay. :-) - * Cubfan: * - * BoriquaKid: * WHack ! ! ! - * Cubfan: * Ouch. That was me. - * Tinkerbell: * LOL - * The_Vampire_lestat has left the conversation.* - * BoriquaKid: * Sorry Cub - * Blue_Feather: * Jeff S, can you assist with... removing hardware ie mouse driver in control p. - * Panzer: * B_K: Is that the ol' attitude adjustment stick? - * Jason_Perlow: * Look. I want to see the best Win95 possible. Because someday when it eventually comes out, I am sure I will have to support it. That is why I am becoming an expert on it now, including the deficiencies it has. I would like t o see as many of those deficiences as possible fixed, but know enough about technology in general that there are some serious and unfixiable flaws in the architecture itself. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * The thing that amazes me is the fact that everybody is so scared of Microsoft. It makes it's share of mistakes. - * Tinkerbell: * Oh bum. I really like it a lot. - * Cubfan: * And I'm hoping it keeps me gainfully employed, too. - * Cubfan: * I'm a trainer, and we're gearing up for making lots of money. - * BoriquaKid: * There's always good ole blue OS/2 Jason. - * Panzer: * Cubfan: I'll drink to that - * Cubfan: * - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Look at Lan Manager. - * Tinkerbell: * Employed? You are employed by Microsoft? - * matty has joined the conversation.* - * matty has left the conversation.* - * Pam has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Ziiiippp - * Cubfan: * Did matty leave twice. - * BoriquaKid: * PAMMY ! ! ! - * Blue_Feather: * Pam hi - * Panzer: * nope. - * Operation_Mindcrime: * pam!!! - * Pam: * By BK, Blue - * Panzer: * ahoy, Pam! - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Cub: No, just in and out. - * BoriquaKid: * We got a live one for you today ! ! ! - * Pam: * Hi Panzer - * Pam: * BK: a live one? - * Cubfan: * Hey, Pam. - * jwstone: * Hi Pam. I'm testing the Ignore button tonight. :-) But never on you. :-) - * BoriquaKid: * Listen - * Pam: * jeff: thanks - * Cubfan: * Who on? - * Panzer: * - * matty has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Hi again, Matt! - * Cubfan: * Stay this time, Matt. - * matty has left the conversation.* - * Panzer: * is she here to stay....NO! - * Cubfan: * Oops not quick enough. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Got it in there fast enought that time - * Race has joined the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Good evening Race! - * Pam: * hey, Race - * jwstone: * Cubfan, even a non-rocket scientist like me can recognize unsubstantiated drivel when I see it. Guess. :-) - * jwstone: * Hi Race! - * Race: * - * Panzer: * ahoy, Race! - * Jason_Perlow: * I am not scared of Microsoft. I am scared of non-competition. As one of many competitiors, MS would be a lovely paragon of technology in a field of many others. As a single company who's vision must be followed, the company itself would be hurt by stagnation, sort of like the US federal government. You need a Novell, and IBM, and HP and others to compete with it to keep it healthy. - * Blue_Feather: * R !!! - * Cubfan: * - * Jason_Perlow: * Ignore me if you want. - * Pam: * knowing smile? - * Race: * Hi gang. - * jwstone: * To know me is to smile at me Pam. :-) - * Jason_Perlow: * Or, ignore me at your peril. Either one, its the same effect. - * Pam: * jeff: absolutely... - * Race: * I love it when mail is spooling - * Cubfan: * Oh, small ego, that. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Microsoft has as many competetors as there are products it sells! - * Panzer: * Jason: Surely you don't see Novell, IBM, and HP going belly up! - * Pam: * yes...mail spools are fun - * jwstone: * Pam--did your mail get fixed okay? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Borland and Microsoft: Databases - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Novel and Microsoft: Networks - * Panzer: * HP has HP/UX, IBM has...well, IBM, and Novell has the "N" word. - * Race: * If they don't knock you off line during spool - * Pam: * jeff: well, i can't get mail to go into the right mailbox, but i think it's because pam.pst is corrupt - * Cubfan: * Time out. I need a beer. Back in a sec. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Lotus and Microsoft: Applications - * Tinkerbell has left the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * IBM and Microsoft: OSes - * Race: * Pam I've sent you a pkg in mail. see if it showed up in the right place - * BoriquaKid: * Cub, make sure you bring a 12-pak, there are a lot of thirsty here. - * Pam: * Race: okay - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * How can you say we don't have competition? - * Blue_Feather: * I also - * Jason_Perlow: * In general, MS wants components, not competitors. Sure, tehy want other people making applications., but with THEM setting the standards and them taking a cut for each one. As for Novell, they certainly want them to go away, since they are trying to take their networking business away, although I think this is a good thing, since it creates competition for Novell, another company which thinks they are gods of what they do as well. - * jwstone: * Sorry about that Pam. It has happened to me too. Luckily for me people were willing to resend. :-) - * Pam: * Race: it's coming into the wrong box, but i've deduced a solution...notto worry - * Panzer: * Lots of Latter-Day Saints at Novell... - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Jason, what companies with 90 percent market share DON"T think they are gods? - * Race: * do you or will you need a resend? - * Pam: * jeff: I can still send and receive from the corrupt file (at this point) so I'm forwarding all mail to a new mailbox - * Pam: * Race: nope, under control - * Jason_Perlow: * As for IBM, in the old days, they were as bad as MS is now. A company which unhealthily dominated major sectors of technlogy. There is no way you could argue that is true anymore, since it is a different company now with the same name, and little else in common. - * Race: * ok, then I'll see yall another time. - * Cubfan: * Pssssffft! Glug-glug-glug... Ahhh! I'm back. Did I miss anything? - * Race: * G'nite all - * Blue_Feather: * Race pax - * jwstone: * Pam--you might want to turn off the DL part of the mailbox until you can shift over to the new one. - * Pam: * Race: if you believe I'm in control I've got a bridge I'd like to show you... - * rastaman has joined the conversation.* - * Race: * in the middle of the desert,right? - * jwstone: * Race--you could at least say goodnight to my wife in the New Age chat. :-) - * Pam: * jeff: yes, I'm working on it...thanks - * Pam: * jeff: for the help - * Pam: * Race: - * Race: * Oh that's right it is that late isn't it? - * jwstone: * Anytime Pam. Just doing ma job. :-) - * Blue_Feather has left the conversation.* - * BoriquaKid: * What are you talking about IBM older days? We lic. them their first OS... - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * I will grant you that, in part. But if you want the same thing to happen to Microsoft, you will have to wish they come out with inferior products for a while. I hope I never see that. - * Race: * nite - * jwstone: * nite Race. - * Schauer has joined the conversation.* - * BoriquaKid: * Later Race. - * Panzer: * MS is too lean and mean to be another IBM.... - * Pam: * nite Race - * Cubfan: * Your paycheck hopes that, Brad. - * Pam: * sweet dreams - * Race has left the conversation.* - * jwstone: * Hi Schauer! - * Panzer: * night, Race. - * Sandy_G has joined the conversation.* - * Cubfan: * We lost that Race. - * Panzer: * S_G is back! - * Schauer has left the conversation.* - * jwstone: * Hi Sandy! - * Sandy_G: * Hi - * Cubfan: * Sandy. Hi. - * Panzer: * the Schnauzer is gone! - * Cubfan: * But you look kinda like him. - * jwstone: * So how's Robin tonight Sandy? - * Pam: * hi Sandy! - * jwstone: * Sold her yet? - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Cub: Well if IBM is any model, bunches of incompetants kept their job for years before IBM finally gave them the boot. - * Sandy_G: * Bashful as ever, Jeff - * Cubfan: * Just kidding, Panda. - * Panzer: * that's two, Cubfan. - * Cubfan: * Brad... there are still quite a few hanging on. I interviewed with them recently. - * Jason_Perlow: * The entire Windows product line has been inferior and its kind of hard to argue this. Windows was supposed to be PM, a shell for OS/2. The technique of throwing it over DOS ensured the fact that it could never take advantage of the hardware it was running on. PERIOD. It sold so well only because the alternative was so badly marketed by a company who though it could do no wrong, as well as the fact that MS pulled a couple of fast ones and backed off on supporting OS/2. - * Sandy_G: * Jeff, she won't even return her EMail; hopeless. We're giving her a sick day. - * jwstone has left the conversation.* - * Cubfan: * Whew. Wordy guy. - * Panzer: * Poor Marketing was the demise of OS/2, amen. - * Jason_Perlow: * I dont have to quote Bill Gates where he says OS/2 was the operating system of the future, do I? We all know that MS going with Windows instead of OS/2 was akin to betraying your own parents, since that was intitially the re lationship. - * brian_f has joined the conversation.* - * Cubfan: * We've seen that in your tagline, Jason. - * Pam: * mail spools can take forever - * Panzer: * Have you all read the story of the DOSfish swimming in the Pea Sea? - * Cubfan: * No? - * Jason_Perlow: * Cub, I dont see what you mean by tagline - * Sandy_G: * Pam, Did you get the test mail? Did it land in your bucket or jess's - * Cubfan: * Never mind. I was talking about the quote. - * Panzer: * It is a hilarious story of the DOS/Windows/Apple/NT saga from day one. It's on the Inet somewhere. - * Jason_Perlow: * Panzer, I read it, Its hillarious. - * Panzer: * oops! Also OS/2... - * BoriquaKid: * That was true if MS were going to continue to develop on it, but MS felt sorry for them. - * Pam: * Sandy: mail is being delivered now... - * jwstone has joined the conversation.* - * Cubfan: * Send me a copy. I love a good laugh. That's why talking to Jason is so much fun. - * Sandy_G: * jeff, that was a quick trip - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Jason: I completely disagree with this statement. Windows was not and has never been a replacement for OS/2. It has always been a method of migrating people from Dos to a GUI. The time had come for it to happen, but all the other attempts (INCLUDING Win1.0 and 2.0) were failures. Windows offered a standard method for people to run Dos Applications. As for IBM's marketing, they were still living in the stone age. They were (and still are to some extent) marketing toward corpo rate buyers. - * jwstone: * Disco city. I'm wondering if the Kill Call Waiting is actually working. The line I'm on has call waiting, and I got a Disco on a 'good' line. - * rastaman has left the conversation.* - * Pam: * I agree with Brad - * Panzer: * The new WARP commercials are mostly amusing. - * Jason_Perlow: * No. they saw an opportunity to make a quick buck instead of having a long alliance. Lets face it, we wouldnt have had to deal with QEMM, TSR's, memory managment, code paging, D - * Sandy_G: * Jeff, they've moved the booting mechanism. Now it gets you guys instead on me. - * Sandy_G: * of - * Cubfan: * I just heard the commercial. "It runs games great." "Cool. You can do all that at once?" "The totally cool way to run your computer." Wow, great marketing! - * Jason_Perlow: * DPMI, DOS extenders, and the differneces between extended and expanded memory if OS/2 was the standard OS today. - * jwstone: * Sandy--we made a partial fix to the disco problem. You should see it a bit less, but not totally gone. - * BoriquaKid: * I've had enough whining from Jason to last me a week, Later everyone. - * Cubfan: * Don't leave, Kid. - * BoriquaKid: * Kiss, Kiss , Pammy...... ;-) - * jwstone: * BK--I respectfully submit to you that the Ignore button works just great. - * Pam: * xoxo, BK - * Pam: * jeff: Yes, functionality of the ignore button is intact - * brian_f has left the conversation.* - * Panzer: * Also the statement made by one of the dweebs, like, "You mean it will run ANY Windows app?" followed by dweeb salesman saying, "Yes." is B.S....try to run something that uses VxDs! - * Sandy_G: * Jeff, it feels better, but I've been on three hours straight before, so It's hard to tell. Gotta keep a chart, figure two standard deviations, cross your fingers, and hope... - * BoriquaKid: * JW, if Jason's here tomorrow I'll give it a test. - * BoriquaKid has left the conversation.* - * Cubfan: * Panzer: good. - * jwstone: * Just say to yourself "hey that JW guy is *such* a butt-head, click on the the name of choice and push Ignore. Works great. Of course, you're still stuck with the people talking to them. :-) - * Sandy_G: * Jeff, I respectfully thank you a whole big batch for that reminder! - * Jason_Perlow: * We are getting away from the original subject. Why do you folks consider an argument that MS made a bad decision to be whining? The entire PC industry is suffering because of it. And in answer to Panzer, NT cant do VxD's eit her. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * As for Microsoft "Betraying" IBM, that's BS. IBM wanted Microsoft to ignore a good marketing oppurtunity. They wanted to be the one to sell the OS, not Microsoft. When MS decided to sell it anyway, IBM told MS, "Well, we wil l take the football and go home". Microsoft went ahead and played anyway and was loved for it. - * Cubfan: * Whose "original subject"? - * jwstone: * Anytime Sandy. Anytime. Of course, the Sysops won't have this as an option. Rules. Luckily, I'm not on duty as a Sysop right now. :-) - * Pam: * Sandy: I got e-mail from you (date/time stamp is today, 10:27 a.m.)...last thing from you in the box - * Jason_Perlow: * Hey, you can use the twit filter on me. But I am being reasonable, well thought out and not obscene. People seem to resent an intelligent argument more than ranting and raving. - * Panzer: * Jason: I have yet to find a WinX app that NT won't run, except for LANalyzer. - * Panzer: * Jason: You are doing fine... - * Sandy_G: * Pam, whose box? - * Jason_Perlow: * Panzer, anything which uses a VxD wont run on any protected mode OS. - * Pam: * Jessica's - * jwstone: * Panzer--any app that uses special drivers will barf on NT. CorelDraw before the upgrade, for instance. FYI. - * Sandy_G: * Pam, you were on as Jess, but I sent it to pam - * Panzer: * Jason: Anyone who chooses to ignore chooses to not learn! - * Pam: * Sandy: I think pam.pst is corrupt - * Cubfan: * Nobody hates your argument, Jason. In fact, you're much more reasonable than most of the OS/2ers I've met. - * Sandy_G: * Pam, ouch - * DeVaughn has joined the conversation.* - * Panzer: * jw: CorelDraw SchmorelDraw, that's why we have PowerPoint! - * Cubfan: * Hello Devo. - * DeVaughn: * Hi all - * Sandy_G: * Hi, D - * jwstone: * Panzer--two different apps. Two totally different markets. - * jwstone: * Hi DeV! - * Pam: * Sandy: well...someday i'll get it all working...i'm not overly frustrated, yet...i'll feel better, though, if Jeff will resend information...i'm trying to apply for a job, you know - * Panzer: * jw: Oh, well... - * DeVaughn: * Does anyone have any idea when this download problem will be solved? - * Cubfan: * What's wrong? - * jwstone: * Oooops. Someone did mention that you'd lost my numbers, again. :-) - * Sandy_G: * Speaking of which, pam, how goes the job hunt? I've gotvery important phone calls tomorrow. Today's were merely important - * Operation_Mindcrime: * yikes gotta run.. see ya'll - * Pam: * jeff: yep, I'll move then to my PIM...nasty Exchange bug overwrote my files - * Sandy_G: * bye, OM - * Pam: * Sandy: I got no calls - * Jason_Perlow: * Panzer I appreciate the fact we can talk intelligently and you arent twit filtering me. I am a client-server expert. Even if I were wrong about every single thing I typed, I would be givng you guys good practice to answer ot her people when Win95 does come out. But I happen to know a LOT about Win95, and if God is my witness, do actually have the goal of wanting to improve it. That is why the Northern NJ OS/2 User Group is site 123522 for Windows 95. - * Cubfan: * Another crime? - * jwstone: * DeV--there's a workaround for the DL problem. Install IPX or TCPIP protocols on your network, even if you don't have a network. Weird, but it works. - * Sandy_G: * Pam, I ws making calls - * Pam: * Sandy: but I sent no info, either - * DeVaughn: * Just IPX or TCPIP? - * Pam: * Sandy: ok, that makes sense...I kinda had the phone line tied up anyway...new phone line gets installed one of these days - * Operation_Mindcrime has left the conversation.* - * Panzer: * Jason: Very much so! - * Panzer: * Jason: thanks. - * Sandy_G: * Pam, tomorrow I get to call my Executive Director officially - * Sandy_G: * She sill flip! - * Pam: * Sandy: congratulations! that's great! - * Sandy_G: * will - * DeVaughn: * I'll go try it - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Jason: EVERY single desicision that has been made in the computer industry has been listed as a bad decsion when we hit the barriers of that descision. The 64K barrier in 8 bit land, the 640K barrier. the 1 Meg limit. Expand ed versus Extended memory, TSRs, iterupt handling Memory managment techniques, etc. Every time we start using the capacity of the system, it was a "bad idea". 20-20 hind sight is always right! - * jwstone: * DeV--either, but TCP seems to have a slight edge. - * Jason_Perlow: * I was an Economics major in college. I worship the concept the the most open and competitive market will always be the heathiest and best one, aka Milton Friendman or Galbraith. - * Panzer: * S_G: whoa! Sprechen Sie English? - * Sandy_G: * The ED owns the only propeller hat and pocket protector in the office. - * Pam: * Sandy: you're such a wonderful salesperson...how could she resist? - * DeVaughn: * OK Thanks a bunch - * DeVaughn has left the conversation.* - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * Jason: By the way, I don't believe our discussion is whining, and I am enjoying it. - * jwstone: * Pam--check your email. I resent. - * Sandy_G: * Pam, she owes me - * Panzer: * Jason: I believe we are witnessing that very competition you desire right here. - * Pam: * jeff: - * Cubfan: * Panz, yep. - * jwstone: * - * jwstone: * Anything else missing in email Pam? - * Cubfan: * Geez, this is gonna have to be R-rated here. - * Panzer: * I do not believe that OS/2 is "...a better Windows than Windows..." though. - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft: * More like Mush rated. - * jwstone: * Cubfan, if you cannot deal with simple gestures of affection, *tough*. :-) - * jwstone: * Cubfan: Now deal with it. :-) - * Pam: * Jeff: bless you...i think i have all the important stuff now...except for TeddyBear's smiley face - * Cubfan: * No, just jealous, I guess. My wife's asleep. - * Sandy_G: * Imagine getting upset when we haven't even goten to the spanking part! - * Cubfan: * Eeeewwww. - * jwstone: * I'm working on that one Pam. He's shy. :-) - * Panzer: * Whatever goober thought up that line should be made to watch old Pippy Longstocking reruns! - * Pam: * jeff: he sent me one...it got overwritten :( - * jwstone: * Cubfan hasn't been bad, ergo, no spankie. :-) - * Sandy_G: * Jeff, TeddyBear is shY? I don't think so.... - * Jason_Perlow: * The moment that the 286 was capable of outstripping the OS, and certainly by the time of the ORIGINAL 386, it made absolutely no sense to continue most of the 8086 8-bit instruction mode. I.E., software compatibility at the application level was stupid. Only data files should have been portable, it would have made sense to upgrade the OS and apps at that time, and people would have done it as long as their data did not get thrown away. - * jwstone: * Sandy, er, um, that is to say, he hasn't shown moi the same interest he shows you. :-) - * Pam: * Cubfan: my husband out of town til Thursday...at least you can wake your spouse up - * Panzer: * Jason: Very well put, so where did IBM drop the ball? - * Cubfan: * I'll be right over. - * Sandy_G: * Jeff, tis not moi in whom he is interested, either - * Pam: * Cubfan: - * Cubfan: * just kidding (gosh hope my wife stays asleep). - * jwstone: * Pam--sympathies. Hope neither of you are lonely. Lonely bites. Been there, done that, they don't sell t-shirts. :( - * michael has joined the conversation.* - * Panzer: * Cubfan: Or at least the screen scrolls real fast! - * Jason_Perlow: * IBM did not drop the ball, since MS was entrusted with the task of building the OS for the PC. And OS/2 1.0 was in fact that OS, mostly engineered by MS. - * Sandy_G: * Hi, Michael - * Pam: * Cubfan: yeah, I don't have to worry about Mark over my shoulder - * Cubfan: * I'm safe now. - * michael: * g'evening all! - * Pam: * jeff: not lonely yet...ask me tomorrow - * michael: * Brad: Any word on Best? - * Cubfan: * Hi Mike. - * Panzer: * Jason: But IBM should have been able to respond to the breakup. - * Pam: * jeff: i'll probably need an extra hug and kiss...will you have some to spare? - * jwstone: * Sandy, then I think he's lacking in taste. You're fun. :-) - * Sandy_G: * Thanks, but Robin is better looking - * Pam: * MICHAEL! My favorite PSSer - * Cubfan: * She looks like a frog to me. - * michael: * :-) howdy all - * Pam: * michael: but don't tell the others, okay? - * michael: * It's our secret Pam - * jwstone: * Sandy--perhaps younger. But as to better, I'd like photo evidence so I can judge for myself. :-) - * Brad_Thompson_Microsoft has left the conversation.* - * Pam: * michael: ah, in fine form, I can tell - * Pam: * scared Brad away - * Sandy_G: * Oh good grief, Jeff, I didn't bring pictures with me. Ask pam, she got one. - * Cubfan: * Microsoft's gone... now the fun begins. - * jwstone: * Pam--he might have gotten discoed. I lost it earlier, and I suspect we're on the same lines. - * Pam: * jeff: i've been dropped three times tonight - * Panzer: * Oh well, with the demise into "slap and tickle", I'll be off to Z City...goodnight all, take it easy, Jason. It was good talking to you. - * jwstone: * Cubfan--I work at MS. You're still not out of the woods. :-) - * Cubfan: * Later, Panz. Come back. - * Panzer: * Cf: C ya, dude. - * Cubfan: * Uh-oh. - * Jason_Perlow: * Panzer, this is correct. Nobody said IBM did not screw up as well. But MS continued to support the 8086 DOS standard and dropped a product they developed. Now, they are being forced in the position to do what they should h ave done then, but in reverse. - * jwstone: * Cubfan--but I don't hold grudges, even against cubfans. :-) - * Cubfan: * Now you're getting personal. I prefer to talk Bears right now. - * Panzer has left the conversation. - * Cubfan: * Panz!!! - * Jason_Perlow: * Now MS has invented the Chicago PC, and they are asking people to change their hardware, when back then people could have changed their software instead. - * jwstone: * Nothing personal--I just don't care for baseball. The Bears are good. :-) - * Pam: * Michael: we're starting to generate notes on the Access BBS...they're silly and multicolored...but hey, they're there! - * Jason_Perlow: * WEll guys, I have to get up in the morning, and I am sure you are glad to see me go. - * Cubfan: * At least they look good now. - * Jason_Perlow: * Nighters. - }